“Talk. Then TALKATIVE at first began to blush; but recovering himself, thus he replied: "You come now to experience, to conscience, and God; and to appeal to him for justification of what is spoken. This kind of discourse I did not expect, nor am I disposed to give an answer to such questions; because I count not myself bound thereto, unless you take upon you to be a catechiser; and though you should so do, yet I may refuse to make you my judge. But I pray, will you tell me why you ask me such questions?

Faith. Because I saw you forward to talk, and because I knew not that you had aught else but notion. Besides, to tell you all the truth, I have heard of you, that you are a man whose religion lies in talk; and that your conversation gives this your mouth-profession the lie. They say you are a spot among Christians; and that religion fares the worse for your ungodly conversation; that some already have stumbled at your wicked ways, and that more are in danger of being destroyed thereby. Your religion, and an ale house, and covetousness, and uncleanness, and swearing, and lying, and vain company keeping, etc., will stand together. The proverb is true of you which is said of a whore, to wit, that "she is a shame to all women": so you are a shame to all professors.”

The Pilgrim’s Progress by John Bunyan

---

"How TALKATIVE at first lifts up his plumes!
How bravely doth he speak! how he presumes
To drive down all before him! but so soon
As FAITHFUL talks of heart-work, like the moon
That's past the full, into the wave he goes;
And so will all but he that heart-work knows."

---

Talkative Is Deceived

---

The use of excerpts from Pilgrim’s Progress by John Bunyan, (including his description of what happens when a person is truly born again) and numerous arguments from the Scripture, this message’s disproves the teaching that there are three classes of people: the natural, the carnal and the spiritual: these rather teaches as Psalm 1, that there are only the righteous and the ungodly.

---

1.       Louis Sperry Chafer’s Theory

2.       Natural Man

3.       Spiritual Man

4.       The Carnal Christian Paradox

5.       Two Classes of Man

---

Talkative Is Deceived

By Richard St.James,  © 1995

---

 This message is entitled: Talkative Is Deceived!  Its purpose is to roll back the cloud that covers the vast sea of individuals that unknowingly stand on the brink of destruction and in danger of Hell fire and eternal damnation; (I realize this “cloud” can only be dispelled by the illumination of the Holy Ghost).

Years ago, just after being “saved by grace through faith,” as a newborn babe in Christ Jesus, I sought, in my excitement, “the sincere milk of the word” so that I could grow as a Christian.  Anything or anyone who named the name of Christ was my friend.  I wanted to know more about “THAT BOOK” and my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  I latched on to “Christian” books in this desire to grow in Jesus Christ. 

1.    Louis Sperry Chafer’s Theory

One book, in particular, He That Is Spiritual, by Lewis Sperry Chafer, became very important to me and of great (if not disastrous) effect in my life.  In this treatise, Chafer defines three classes of men.

The following is quoted from his book:

“The Apostle Paul, by the Spirit, has divided the whole human family into three groups: (1) The “natural man,” who is unregenerate, or unchanged spiritually; (2) the “carnal man,” who is a “babe in Christ,” and walks “as a man”; and (3) the “spiritual man.” ¹

Chafer amplifies further his meaning of the “carnal man.” 

“Some Christians, thus, are said to be “carnal” because they can receive only the milk of the Word, in contrast to the strong meat... though saved, the carnal Christians are walking according to the course of this world.” 

They are carnal because the flesh is dominating them (see Romans 7:14). 

A different description is found in Romans 8:5-7, there the one referred to is “in the flesh, but he has the flesh in him.” ² 

 “But the ‘carnal’ Christian is also characterized by a ‘walk’ that is on the same plane as that of the ‘natural’ man.” ³ 

In reading his book cover to cover, I accepted his position without reservation.  Anyone who professes Jesus Christ, as his Savior, is saved.  That is it!  The Fruit of the Spirit of God was not an absolute necessity.  The “carnal Christian” was going to go to heaven, and no man should ever doubt this, nor can any question arise as to the “carnal Christians” destination--Heaven.

Footnote 1, Page 15

Footnote 2, Page 20

Footnote 3, Page 21

He That Is Spiritual, by Lewis Sperry Chafer, Zondervan, 1918

2.       Natural Man

My years in the United States Navy was spent with an interdenominational group known as The Navigators and my church membership at the Westbrae Bible Church of Berkeley, California in the early 1970's would only further imbue and insure the reinforcement in me of this doctrine as being a truly biblical doctrine. 

Incidentally, the Westbrae Bible Church was associated with the Independent Fundamental Churches of America (a fundamental remnant of the Presbyterianism, in the 1920’s).  Today, the IFCA has totally “slipped” into the Neo-Evangelical movement. 

Little did I know how destructive its effect would be in my life in the years ahead?  In fact, this doctrine has done much to insure that millions of people would be fooled as to their eternal destination provided through a false sense of salvation from the impending wrath of God.  This wrath is hanging over the wicked and will come down on them at the end of this age.

Let me ask you a question!  Is this “carnal Christian” teaching biblical doctrine?  Are there really three classes of men? 

As to the first class the “natural man,” no serious Bible believer can doubt that God shows forth in his word in very clear and un-mistakable terms the reality of such a class of man, the NATURAL MAN.  

3.       Spiritual Man

"As to the reality of SPIRITUAL MAN, no true believer can fail to believe God's Book revealing a class of men called “spiritual man”.  So when the “natural man” is spiritually reborn or “quickened” by the Holy Ghost, and “made alive” in Jesus Christ, he becomes “spiritual man.”   “Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.” [Colossians 1:13]    The Holy Ghost performs this translation from one state (the natural man) into a new state (the spiritual man).  He moves the natural man from the power of darkness and puts him into the kingdom of His Dear Son.  He is made spiritual man “by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.” [Titus 3:5]  “But as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His Name.”  [John 1:12]  “And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba Father”.  Galatians. 4:6

4.       The Carnal Christian Paradox

It is Chafer's “carnal man” or “carnal Christian” that will prove by Scripture to be an untrue classification of men.  Chafer builds his doctrine of the “carnal Christian” on the 3nd chapter of I Corinthians.  He frames up his structure here. 

Comparison of Scripture with Scripture will not allow this peculiar classification.  Even the very mix of the words produces error magnified untold!  That is, the “carnal Christian” is a paradox.  It is a contradiction in terms.  The words carnal and Christian cannot be connected together.  They cannot exist together.

Let us backup for a moment.  Let us ask this question.  From what fountain does this flow?  I will tell you.  When Dallas Theological Seminary was founded, Lewis Sperry Chafer was its first president.  The seeds of unbelief were already present.  The inner decay (Westcott and Hort, the New Age leaven) was well under way.  The erosion of the very foundation of believing “the words of the Lord are pure words” had already occurred [Ps.12: 6].   

To them, the pronouncement that “Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, Thou shalt preserve them, from this generation forever” had no application to the scholars union and the Bible college teachers.  Having brought this to the foreground, let us continue. 

1 Corinthians 3:          

Verse (1) reads: “and I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.”  Please note the words “as unto” are used three times in this verse.  Using the phrase, “as unto” does not mean the Apostle Paul is saying that these Corinthian Christians are carnal, but that they are acting as if they are carnal. They were acting as if they were babes in Christ. 

Verse (3) “For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men.”  Here Chafer seems to have pinned it down in proving that there is a third classification of men.

But hold it!  Remember the context, keep verse (1) in mind.  While he is addressing them, he is treating them as if they are yet carnal.   Paul is doing this for good reason! 

Now go back to chapter 1:11 “For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.”  He is writing this epistle to deal with a problem among these Christians.  His motive is to insure “that ye come behind in no gift”.  See I Corinthians chapter 1, verse 7-8.  

The Apostle Paul wanted them confirmed by the Lord Jesus Christ, and found “blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ”.   The Apostle Paul is beseeching them as brethren.  The term carnal as used in this passage cannot refer to the state of a believer in Jesus Christ.  “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new”.

The biblical order is this. 

The natural man is:

1) BLINDED	“minds were blinded”	2 Corinthians 3:14
2) DEAD	”dead in trespasses and sins”	Ephesians 2:1
3) WORLDLY	“walked according to the course of this world”	Ephesians 2:2
4) ENSLAVED	“according to the prince of the power of the air”.	Ephesians. 2:2
5) HELL BOUND	“by nature the children of wrath	Ephesians. 2:3

               

 Then once the “natural man” is “quickened” (Ephesians 2:1) we are “saved” (Ephesians 2:8) and become “his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” (Ephesians 2:10); “who hath delivered us from the power of darkness” (Col. 1:13), redeemed “through his blood,” “kept by the power of God”.   (1 Peter 1:5)

And we can have this said about us:

 

1)                   1) PURIFIED	“seeing ye have purified your souls” “through the Spirit”	1 Peter 1:22
2) BORN AGAIN	“being born again”	1 Peter 1:23
3) KNOW HIM	“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”  “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”	1 John 2:3 1 John 2:4
4)ETERNAL LIFE	“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”	1 Jo 5:13
5)QUICKENED	“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”	Col 2:13 ¶

 

There are only two classes of men recognized in God's Holy Book! 

Consider these Scripture references: 

1. “the righteous” Psalm 1 versus “the ungodly”  Psalm 1
2. “the just”  Psalm 7:9 versus “the sinners”  Psalm 1
3. “the upright”  Psalm 7:10 versus “the scornful” Psalm 1
4. “wheat”  Matthew 13:30 versus “heathen”  Psalm 2
5. “saints” I Corinthians 1:2 versus “workers of iniquity” Psalm 6:8
6. “lively stones” I Peter 2:5 versus “the wicked” Matt. 13:30

 

 Two Kinds! *** Two Classes!! *** Two Groups!!! *** Just Two!!!

If this is not enough to show that the “carnal Christian” theory is not biblical; prayerfully consider this.  Go to Romans chapter 8. 

Let the Scripture show the impossibility of a class of men called the “carnal Christian” 

Romans 8:6 “For to be carnally minded is death”

Carnality is death.  Being “in Christ” is Life -- Opposites! 

Romans 8:7, “because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” 

Amen! Amen! Amen!